Measure 37
You might be interested in these numbers from the November 2, 2004 general election. The voting on Measure 37 in the precincts within District 3 went as follows:
| Precinct | Yes on 37 | No on 37 |
| Astoria 3 | 457 | 316 |
| Astoria 4 | 406 | 282 |
| Astoria 5 | 270 | 267 |
| Astoria 6 | 293 | 253 |
| Chadwell | 327 | 189 |
| Lewis & Clark | 436 | 227 |
| Olney | 220 | 102 |
| TOTAL | 2409 | 1636 |
Measure 37 was approved by 68 percent of the voters of District 3. The statewide average was 61 percent. That's a very clear message.
The County has posted all Measure 37 claims on its website. The great majority of claims here have been very modest, with the grandest claims requesting the ability to subdivide into decent-sized lots for homes. Many have been approved, but have been greatly restricted as to the ability to build. From what I can tell from my brief experience, the claims are being interpreted very conservatively and cautiously here.
My grandmother's house was built in 1959, on the outskirts of the city limits of Charlotte, North Carolina. Dogwood Place was and is a quarter-mile circle. About 20 red brick ranch houses sit on at least 3/4-acre lots. At the bottom curve of the circle is a small aquifer-fed lake with a man-made peninsula built out to the middle, where a willow tree stood for many years. You entered Dogwood Place from Hickory Grove Road, which one way led eventually Uptown and the other way to Hickory Grove Grammar School and a railroad track. You could take a nap in the middle of it while waiting for the occasional Uptown bus. My grandmother's large backyard ended at a short slope that led down to a wide gravel parking lot for Hickory Grove Baptist Church. The church was red brick too, about the size of two houses, with simple white-columned walkways that were perfect for key roller skates.
Dogwood Place hasn't changed. It has been surrounded. Two years ago dozens of old oaks were cut down to make Hickory Grove Road a four-lane thoroughfare. The old church has been replaced by a behemoth. A three-story brick Education Building now backs up to my grandmother's backyard, and yellow sulfur lights illuminate the night sky.
Our rural lands, our city byways, are bound to change in ways we don't all like. My hope is for responsible development that recognizes the rights and interests of our neighbors throughout the county.
The voters have spoken and as Commissioner I will certainly uphold their words.
12:22PM PS: There may be some misunderstanding about how these claims are processed. The Commissioners have so far had nothing to do with the claims except to approve or disapprove of the staff's recommendation (which is supposed to be based on their understanding of the zoning rules that have applied to the land over time, the ownership of the land over time, and how Measure 37 affects that). I haven't asked specifically, but from the voting record my sense is that Commissioners Patrick and Lee vote to approve every claim that comes before the County, regardless of the staff's recommendation. Sometimes that means voting "Yes" and sometimes that means voting "No."
26 Comments:
Cindy,
Thank you for responding to my question. It is interesting to see how the people voted, however, I hope your not taking a look at these numbers to figure out where you stand individually on this issue.
I dont feel you answered my direct questions. The questions are: did you support measure 37 or oppose it. Why or why not? What do you think it will do to the quality of life we enjoy here in Clatsop County now that it has passed? What will you do at the County level to implement these changes that are now occuring?
Your opponent will tell me that he did support measure 37. Did you agree with him on this issue? I believe the voters have a right to know where you stand on this issue, because it is going to be one of the main things you will be dealing with, should you be elected.
Cary: No, I don't stick my finger in the wind before making political decisions. I wouldn't be a triple death Independent if I did.
Commissioners are elected to represent their constituency and I believe it's part of my responsibility to know how District 3 has voted on the issues. Thus, the numbers.
Will Measure 37 claims affect your quality of life? Depends on how you define that, on what sort of claims are made, and on what actually happens once a claim is approved. Some people will find their quality of life enhanced while others will not.
I'll pay very close attention to the claims to ensure the claimant has access to all the resources he or she needs and that staff has done its proper and thorough research before reaching a recommendation. If all that's been done well, I'll go with the staff recommendation. Sometimes there are ways other than through Measure 37 claims for landowners to get relief (eg, through separating out tax lots), and I'll make sure that information is provided as well.
I can't think of an issue that normally comes before the county on which I would "vote my conscience" despite an overwhelming vote of my constituents to the contrary.
Johnson obviously doesn't realize that if Lee has Publicly made a statement in favor of or against Measure 37, as it is with LNG, he could be forced by the net claim appellant to recuse himself from any deliberation on the issue as he has prejudiced himself by his opinion but, as it is with Republicans and GOB's, what's new?
Maybe Johnson just assumes you are that stupid because you are merely somebody important's wife.
Maybe the GOB strategy geniouses were hoping you would fall for it while making Johnson look like the idiot, not them.
I haven't asked specifically, but from the voting record my sense is that Commissioners Patrick and Lee vote to approve every claim that comes before the County, regardless of the staff's recommendation.
Better check again, surely there is a reason why I am still renting.
And his initials are RL.
Anon,
I would expect Cindy to either answer the question or tell me why shy can't. I certainly do not assume she is stupid or merely somebody importants wife. I respect her as a legitimate candidate for commissioner and I wish to know where she stands on issues that are important. If I didnt, I wouldnt waste my time asking the questions.
Anon, you should not speak for her, you are a very poor mouthpiece.
The only thing that I assume is that you are a coward and hide behind "Anonymous" because you have no credibility. I shouldnt even respond to you anymore because it might be too difficult to determine who the real idiot is. You for posting or me for responding to you.
Why not let Cindy Price speak? She is the one who should be answering the questions asked!
I agree Anon, you should not speak for her you offer nothing.
Another Anon!
thartill, what does an RL or others have to do with you renting? Is there a story here? I am curious.
My family had spent over 5 years and $30,000+ to rezone our property to get 3 lots on our 60+ acres (That has been in my family since we took it from the Indians, 140 years ago) since we didn't use the lots right away, the State of Oregon rezoned it so the 3 lots became 0. When we took our 37 claim to the County we asked for 2 back not the original 3, one of which was for me, and I stated that in a letter to the Commission. Richard Lee was the only Commissioner to speak and spoke against our claim, (A good chance the only time he ever spoke against a claim) but as a "compromise" suggested to give us one lot back. And all 5 voted to approve one lot.
A big "F*ck You" to THartill.
Tryan, what was the reason for denying your claim? I can't get the .pdf files to load from the County site.
Tryan, that sounds terrible. I am sorry that your land was stolen from you. The DA should prosecute these crimes. I would also like to know the reason for denying your claim. I sounds rediculous that you cant build yourself a home on your families land.
Well here is why measure 37 could be the worst law ever written. The day may dad bought the property (from my grandfather) the law said he could only build 38 acre lots, only after years of all the crap, did he get it down AF-20 the lots. So since the measure says you get the lots you were entitled to, the day you bought the property, that is what the Staff recommended since we only have 64 acres. But the law also gives leaway to the local County Commissioners to take all of the facts into account in each case to come up with a decision, since the law is so poorly written that it doesn't set out guidelines for every case. Our case was "odd" because there was zone changes and building lots going every which way over a 20 year period.
If today we had 76 acres, we would have 2 lots (38 acre lots) via measure 37 with no questions asked, but since we are 12 acres short we get one. This was basically the "variance" we were asking for. It wasn't for profit or quick cash, it was to pass it down to another "Hartill Generation".
IMHO this is where my local County Commissioner (District 3) should fight for his/her citizens, which didn't happen.
So we got one and were told the other must go to the courts to decide.
Cindy
Remember the first day you signed-up to run for Commissioner, I said that you better study up on land-use?
If you are elected these are the kind a cases you must decide. Sounds like fun already, huh:-)
Tryan, in my opinion the law should say that the only zoning rules that apply to the property are the ones in place when the family first came into ownership, no matter how it has been passed down. You should be able to do what your great-great-grandparents had the right to do when they were around.
It is wrong what has happened to you and it threatens the financial future of your family.
I think you should call Dave Hunnicutt at Oregonians in Action and ask him if there is anything you can do. (If you havnt already) I believe he helped draft this ballot measure.
If my dad died tomorrow, I would have no rights on my family property and todays zoning laws would apply. Any measure 37 claim would have to be done in his name while he is still living. This is wrong. I have heard that some issues about transferability are in the courts now. Hopefully this issue can be corrected one way or another.
Good luck Tryan
Cindy,
I congratulate you on your endorsment by Crime Victims United. I have met Steve Doell a few times and I fully support his cause. I was also glad to hear you speak out in support of Jessica's Law at the Seaside forum. On Jessica's Law we most cetainly agree. The government must protect those who cannot protect themselves.
All of the claims I've heard (only 5 at BOCC meetings so far) have been very similar. Some of these Measures are made for lawyers, not citizens. One of the last ones -- I think it was by Mr. Filliger -- was treated similarly to Tryan's. I can't find the details now but he asked to build maybe 40 and was allowed to build one or maybe two houses on his dozens of acres -- but only when he can tap into the sewer district. The elderly gentleman walked up to the table after the ruling, just totally beaten down by the process, and asked if anybody knew when the sewer would reach him. You could see his question was "Will I be alive?" Nobody answered. Somebody nudged RL who figured out what was going on and said he didn't know anything about it. One of the other commissioners said, "That's your district, isn't it?" RL said, "Yes, but that's a separate body that's doing that. We don't have anything to do with it. They're working on their process and I just don't know." Everybody else in the room felt like crap already, after this man's claim had been denied, and now this. I was writing a note with the same information when Scott Derickson reluctantly stepped into the silence and told the gentleman to contact Tom Tetlow.
By the way, good news from the Sewer District. At last week's meeting Tom said the funds should be in place and the ducks all in a row for construction bids to go out August 16th. Of this year. God willin' and the crick don't rise, of course.
Quasi-judicial work like the Measure 37 claims may be the most interesting work of the county. It's policy and legislation and the grand design of the county, and human drama. Sometimes spiced with greed and avarice.
"Cary said:
Anon, you should not speak for her, you are a very poor mouthpiece.
The only thing that I assume is that you are a coward and hide behind "Anonymous" because you have no credibility. I shouldnt even respond to you anymore because it might be too difficult to determine who the real idiot is. You for posting or me for responding to you."
Speak for Cindy Price?
I don't have to speak for Cindy Price she's fully capable of making her points very clear and obviously so since you and Taggart have been assigned by the "GOB Network" the task of trying to disrupt her campaign on her own site, of which you are both doing a bang-up job of continuing to destroy Lee's chances at re-election but, please, continue to knock yourselves out.
A coward?
Quite frankly, out of concern for the well-being of my family I choose to use option 3 on this site, "Anonymous", as I am one of you and I know you and Taggart and you know me and you sure as hell would not call me a coward face to face.
Your stupidity is assuming Lee did the right thing by voicing a public, personal opinion on Measure 37, thereby, prejudicing himself on that particular issue and assuming once again Ms. Price would be stupid enough to do the same thing.
Ms. Price gave you the proper answer and she can refute my view if she wishes but I want to let her know that many of the assumed GOBs so many criticize are just as tired of Lee's and others misdeeds as anybody else.
I drive by the fruits of Lee's community service every morning just to be reminded that all is not equal in that world out there at Miles Crossing.
Anon says:
"since you and Taggart have been assigned by the "GOB Network" the task of trying to disrupt her campaign on her own site, of which you are both doing a bang-up job of continuing to destroy Lee's chances at re-election but, please, continue to knock yourselves out."
You keep bringing up that I'm somehow trying to disrupt Cyndi's campaign. What exactly did I say or ask that is disruptive? Once again, she made accusations of Mr. Lee. I asked her to give supporting evidence (still haven't seen any). I also asked her where she stood on a host of issues (which she still hasn't answered). Cary and myself asked her about her personal stance on measure 37 and she shot back with an answer that resembles the abortion answer (It's the law of the land and I'll support the law of the land, etc). Why is that disruptive? Why is wanting to know how someone feels personally on an important issue disruptive? People deserve to know.
"since you and Taggart have been assigned by the "GOB Network" the task of trying to disrupt her campaign on her own site"
Anon,
You cant be serious!! Both Taggart and Lee work for me as elected officials, I do not work for them. There is no "GOB network" that I know of.
I am just asking Cindy Price straight forward questions for my own knowlege because I dont know her, or where she stands on many issues that are important to me. I am not trying to disrupt her campaign in any way, shape or form. I think this forum is one of the reasons Cindy has designed this site. I asked Cindy questions, not you.
I respect her as a legitimate candidate and if she wins, I will know where she stands. If she loses, Lee will be a better commissioner for having her as a challenger. I think Cindy designed this forum for just that reason and I hope she appreciates my questions.
Anon,
you clearly have an agenda and I dont appreciate being called stupid for asking questions or being accused of "obviously working for a GOB network". It just adds to the fact that you have no credibility. I have great respect for the freedom of speech and I have given you no reason to hide. You should be able speak freely without living in fear.
You should not say what I would or would not say face to face, I certainly do not fear you and in this country I am free to speak my mind. If I knew who you are, than I wouldnt need to say that you are a coward. Because you refuse to speak to me openly, that is cowardly.
It does not prejudice Lee or anyone else in an elected possition for them to say that measure 37 is a good thing or a bad thing for our county. It certainly does not mean they have predetermined any specific claims.
killer whale (I don't recall the Genus Name) pods have group-specific dialects.
The endorsement was also for Josh Marquis from Steve Doell. I gather from his remarks "they are like two peas in a pod"
I would like to give CREDIT to Mrs. Lee for helping her Husband with his business/family etc.
"Johnson says;
Anon,
You cant be serious!! Both Taggart and Lee work for me as elected officials, I do not work for them. There is no "GOB network" that I know of."
I don't know who you trying to convince pal but taggert works for the port and lee works for himself.
Niether one gives a damn about you or me unless you are in their pocket too.
Spoken like a true killer whale.
A person should be able to develope their land as they wish.
Clatsop County needs more affordable housing! For the hard working family who can't find anything in their price range. Building more housing brings more JOBS, when you hire local people to do the work.
They receive training to find more work, or go out on their own.
What ever happened to "Astoria Oil Co?
Good point Anon. This is what alot of people simply do not understand. Because of restrictive zoning (prior to meas. 37), land is becoming a not so cheap commodity. Hence pushing housing prices beyond what many people can afford. Without more industry here, it becomes less and less affordable. What happened to all of the houses in the 65k to 100k market??? Good luck finding anything for that price. That's sad because someone who makes $15/hour can't afford much more than that.
So the next person who comes up to you and tells you we don't need industry or measure 37 around here must not care much about how families are going to buy their first house. Schools will continue to lose ground, slippery slope.
Agree with both Anon and Glenn, but there must be some kind of plan that addresses this and I hope that is what will happen. But first the State must turnover the decisions to the local Governments. As it is right now, fine print, the dates of documents and political pull, decides who builds and who can't instead of common sense. Measure 37 is a terrible law and needs to be torn up ASAP in favor local control, so we can have a level playing field and common sense in our local property development decisions.
"Glenn Said: Without more industry here, it becomes less and less affordable."
You just hit the critical key to the entire equation for the potential for affordable housing right square on the head and until we make an intentional and concerted effort to get that cohesive and complimentary, Living Wage, industry down here that's the way it will stay and it's a bloody crime that we still cannot offer our young and growing families that option.
I guess the question now is: Are we going to finally do soemthing about it or just continue to give it lip service as has become common around here?
Measure 37 is just one small step towards fixing the land use problems that our state has. It has major problems in the way it is written, such as transferability of rights to a claim.
I believe it was written in this way to ensure that it would pass and now we will have to work to correct problems with it and continue on the path of freedom. This is just one small step and it will help ease some of the pain everyone is feeling. It is not the final solution.
Most of us agree that we need industry around here to support family wage jobs. Building houses does bring some construction jobs of course, but you need jobs to support the people buying houses if you want families to live here.
Industry and jobs come before houses, housing does not come before jobs except in one case. That is, if people buying homes are retired people from the cities or California who want to live in the place they used to visit on vacation. Low wage jobs are created to support these people. These people dont have jobs and they dont have kids. Young and growing families leave because they cant afford to live here anymore.
I was raised here and have lived here my entire life. I have seen friends and family move away from here because of lack of work, including my brother and sisters.
Cindy, what should the County be doing to ensure that young and growing families have good job opportunities that pay a living wage or is this a priority for you? Should the county hire someone to attract business here or just set the tone as business friendly and stay out of it?
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